tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post2875998973953769571..comments2024-03-17T03:15:14.033-04:00Comments on View From Madison Avenue: Abusive Men In The Advertising BusinessView From Madison Avenuehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-76050045670875656312017-12-30T13:57:05.434-05:002017-12-30T13:57:05.434-05:00Hey Anon, I started in the ad agency business in 1...Hey Anon, I started in the ad agency business in 1982 at 20 right out of college and I think you paint a very accurate picture. Holiday parties with clients were a particular minefield. I remember distinctly getting groped on the dance floor at a party by the highest-level client -- one so important and feared we rarely saw him in meetings -- and when I scanned around and locked eyes with my bossLisa Rothsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04995258919527584970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-11353561000182420052017-12-22T14:36:55.142-05:002017-12-22T14:36:55.142-05:00Thanks, Anon, for joining the conversation. Every...Thanks, Anon, for joining the conversation. Everything you say is right. View From Madison Avenuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-63962906157456525062017-12-22T14:25:09.867-05:002017-12-22T14:25:09.867-05:00I've been in the advertising/marketing workfor...I've been in the advertising/marketing workforce since 1982 and seen a LOT. Mr. Crandall, yes it IS pervasive as almost every woman I've ever worked with has experienced it. And while most men don't do it, sadly too many tolerate it.<br /><br />Let me ask you a question: have you ever been with a group of guys at work and heard them discussing a female coworker's body? Or made a Anonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07887334410057831890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-59807505811233190252017-12-14T01:39:01.762-05:002017-12-14T01:39:01.762-05:00Ok, then let's get a drink at a local bar and ...Ok, then let's get a drink at a local bar and get to know each other better just a bit a humor, these posts are getting too heavy, let's all lighten up and respect each other smileAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-18316968989097984532017-12-13T13:37:18.779-05:002017-12-13T13:37:18.779-05:00Freud: Nothing wrong with flirtation. Just not in ...Freud: Nothing wrong with flirtation. Just not in the office. I am a beautiful woman and honestly, flirtation in the workplace becomes distracting from my primary purpose, which is work. I think the Gumbiner’s are not saying flirtation is wrong. Just not at work. And just not anytime unwanted. You have a right to say what you think, but if you want to flirt, maybe take it to your local bar, or Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-64445897575407814532017-12-13T12:02:30.523-05:002017-12-13T12:02:30.523-05:00You are right Gumbinner abuse and harrassment is a...You are right Gumbinner abuse and harrassment is and the operative word very complicated, but you are excoriating men for their natural attraction to women. To the men who are inappropriate no good, but I for one will never stop flirting and I fear your point of view and your daughters represent an Orwellian view of the world. I can say this if this becomes out of hand and men are punished for Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-19074111514838334862017-12-13T11:06:17.913-05:002017-12-13T11:06:17.913-05:00Dr. Freud, Clearly, you are "chicken" ab...Dr. Freud, Clearly, you are "chicken" about this topic or you would sign your name. I would be happy to have a productive discussion with you, but I will not allow you to use my post to attack me or my family instead of the issue. Abuse and harassment in the workplace is a very complicated issue. Rather than attacking, why not sign your name so we can have a vigorous discussion.<br />View From Madison Avenuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-34858470970241475092017-12-13T10:56:37.197-05:002017-12-13T10:56:37.197-05:00You are talking Fascism listen and not respond. I...You are talking Fascism listen and not respond. I hope you are not ever in a position of power.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-65707957994459006892017-12-13T10:38:35.254-05:002017-12-13T10:38:35.254-05:00Hey Blog Administrator, Chicken about hearing a ch...Hey Blog Administrator, Chicken about hearing a challenge, Bup Bup Bup, SqwawkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-87968890113895664212017-12-13T10:24:45.004-05:002017-12-13T10:24:45.004-05:00What one person considers innocent flirting, anoth...What one person considers innocent flirting, another may consider harassment. I stand by my point of view.View From Madison Avenuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-9322242074514576132017-12-13T10:17:47.121-05:002017-12-13T10:17:47.121-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-34145920062577059912017-12-13T10:13:20.688-05:002017-12-13T10:13:20.688-05:00There is NOTHING wrong with flirting at work, Norm...There is NOTHING wrong with flirting at work, Normal Human Interaction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-47613804774753714862017-12-13T08:58:48.315-05:002017-12-13T08:58:48.315-05:00I deleted an ad hominem personal attack. It attac...I deleted an ad hominem personal attack. It attacked the writers rather than the issue.View From Madison Avenuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-41981808039723112192017-12-10T15:31:41.027-05:002017-12-10T15:31:41.027-05:00Thanks for giving me permission to have an opinion...Thanks for giving me permission to have an opinion! After 25 years as an advertising and marketing executive, I'm thrilled to hear that I've earned one!<br /><br />You do understand that comments like women "lack a necessary toughness and deftness in handling male personalities" epitomizes patriarchy, right? Or maybe you don't.<br /><br />But then, like gravity or global Liz Gumbinnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-28087376123343876562017-12-10T13:44:02.440-05:002017-12-10T13:44:02.440-05:00I can say that I encountered horrible abuse but no...I can say that I encountered horrible abuse but not in the advertising industry. I was blessed with exceptional leadership. <br /><br />I did however to my embarrassment sign a non disclosure agreement for 10,000 when I was 23. This was in the import/export business.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-84769806964836266162017-12-10T12:34:20.802-05:002017-12-10T12:34:20.802-05:00Dear Anon: Indeed, I have never worked in human re...Dear Anon: Indeed, I have never worked in human resources. However, I believe you are blaming the victims. It is like you are blaming coal miners for getting black lung disease – if they didn’t work there, they would not get sick. There is no excuse for harassment, no matter how trivial or minor. This has nothing to do with toughness and deftness in handling male personalities. Men, and in View From Madison Avenuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-13777771090940499062017-12-10T06:04:22.626-05:002017-12-10T06:04:22.626-05:00Ms. Gumbinner, I respect your viewpoint and believ...Ms. Gumbinner, I respect your viewpoint and believe your sincerity in regards to elevating women in the workplace. This is laudable, but I can also tell from your post that you have never worked a day in Human Resources. It's obviously fine to have an opinion, but please note that things go on behind the scenes that you may not have much knowledge or insight into. I like your idealism, but Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-65099377525110931502017-12-08T12:35:28.665-05:002017-12-08T12:35:28.665-05:00Just, wow. I have to say this is an extremely dist...Just, wow. I have to say this is an extremely disturbing point of view from someone in HR. I'm happy to respond not anonymously. <br /><br />Let's look at some of the reason womens don't come forward more, using your own examples. When they do, here's what may happen:<br /><br />-they are told to stop being "victims" and to fix it themselves<br /><br />-they are told Liz Gumbinnerhttp://coolmompicks.com/blog/2017/10/11/harvey-weinstein-sexual-harassment-spawned-89/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-74539001166542479692017-12-08T12:16:40.747-05:002017-12-08T12:16:40.747-05:00If your first instinct is to read about decades of...If your first instinct is to read about decades of abuse against women in myriad forms, and to defensively state, "not all men" then you are not really reading, you are not really hearing, you are not the ally you think you are, and you certainly aren't prepared to be part of the solution. <br /><br />Sometimes it's okay to LISTEN and not talk. <br /><br />Sometimes it's Lizhttp://coolmompicks.com/blog/2017/10/11/harvey-weinstein-sexual-harassment-spawned-89/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-76797660182739562642017-12-07T22:31:01.497-05:002017-12-07T22:31:01.497-05:00My last word on this … When I suggested that workp...My last word on this … When I suggested that workplace harassment is not as “pervasive” as currently being reported, it was with the literal definition of “pervasive” in mind. To wit, the Cambridge Dictionary defining pervasive as … “Present or noticeable in EVERY part of a thing or place”, e.g., a pervasive smell of diesel. Merriam-Webster saying, “Existing in or spreading through EVERY part Bill Crandallnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-42660958471636102532017-12-06T17:07:32.884-05:002017-12-06T17:07:32.884-05:00Bill, I completely agree with you. The notion that...Bill, I completely agree with you. The notion that all men are predators is wrong and ultimately it's just as damaging to women as it is to men.<br /><br />It's an inaccurate and unhealthy train of thought that lacks nuance and sophistication. All sorts of gray areas crop up in the workplace and to state that coworkers will never enter into romantic relationships is a bit naive.<br /><br Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-50792384996574635652017-12-06T16:54:04.174-05:002017-12-06T16:54:04.174-05:00I don't work in advertising, but I am a woman ...I don't work in advertising, but I am a woman with a background in Human Resources. In my last role, I was a Director and ran an HR department. The handbooks I created always had codes of conduct and anyone who violated those codes (by acting inappropriately towards men or women) would be subject to disciplinary action.<br /><br />With that said, it's impossible to construct a policy for Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-7563617286984137982017-12-06T16:50:31.089-05:002017-12-06T16:50:31.089-05:00Bill Crandall- As of mid-Oct there were over 12 mi...Bill Crandall- As of mid-Oct there were over 12 million #metoo silence breakers. That was two months ago. I would have to say this is pervasive.<br /><br />Firstly, how can you state the issue is not pervasive? And how can you even know? Are you questioning the millions of women (and men) who are coming forward? And the possible millions more who are still fearful due to possible repercussions orAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-58022250056678165902017-12-06T13:39:46.784-05:002017-12-06T13:39:46.784-05:00Bill, you are WAY off base. Harassment is indeed p...Bill, you are WAY off base. Harassment is indeed pervasive. And all people, men and women, should have company training. PS is right that people may not know where to draw the line. Flirting should not be permissible in the workplace. Women come to work. Period. One does not have to make unwelcome advances or physical assaults in order to be abusive. I once had a client, not that long ago, View From Madison Avenuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-73897189673516069902017-12-06T13:28:53.522-05:002017-12-06T13:28:53.522-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.View From Madison Avenuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.com