tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post1788939017048339124..comments2024-03-17T03:15:14.033-04:00Comments on View From Madison Avenue: Should Advertising Executives Be Entitled To Overtime?View From Madison Avenuehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-59954011443687214322015-04-08T02:17:08.154-04:002015-04-08T02:17:08.154-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08260879594049484716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-76386981232077848162013-12-25T10:28:11.245-05:002013-12-25T10:28:11.245-05:00@Anonymous: I never took sides on this discussion...@Anonymous: I never took sides on this discussion, I merely posted it hoping for a vigorous response. However, you are clearly very, very angry and I would suggest that you find another profession in which you can employ your talent without all the rancor. Why stay in a job that you obviously resent and hate?View From Madison Avenuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-87329653798069838022013-12-25T01:04:53.104-05:002013-12-25T01:04:53.104-05:00Being a writer in an agency, I think this is one i...Being a writer in an agency, I think this is one infuriating attitude that should be rendered extinct: That your advertising job is your life. Whatever happened to your passions, family, personal growth, etc.? All brushed under the carpet under the pretext of "this is how the industry works"? And not getting paid for overtime (or slave-labour, I'd call it) merely rubs salt into yourAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-55993752093417415482013-12-11T12:02:10.558-05:002013-12-11T12:02:10.558-05:00Well, I guess she is looking in the mouth of a gif...Well, I guess she is looking in the mouth of a gift horse. Some people don't realize what they have until they loose it. Thanks for sharing.View From Madison Avenuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-71556213086016128882013-12-11T12:00:04.070-05:002013-12-11T12:00:04.070-05:00I worked on a global launch for a large agency. W...I worked on a global launch for a large agency. We often had conference calls with Australia starting at 9 pm, and even had focus groups that we watched via FocusVision that ran until 3 am. It was the best experience I ever got, and worth every single late night, early morning, and weekend. If that AS was too money-focused to realize it, she will never turn into a great advocate for her Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-77568828531497201982013-12-08T12:01:18.367-05:002013-12-08T12:01:18.367-05:00Show me someone who doesn't feel under paid! M...Show me someone who doesn't feel under paid! Medical Residents are paid less than your account exec, are "limited" to 80 hours per week and have more mental stress and responsibility. I think this individual is lucky to have the job in a very competetive market and needs to prove her worth before she receives more compensation. Thought from another world. RGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-86621266325262224272013-12-07T11:14:37.791-05:002013-12-07T11:14:37.791-05:00Yes, definitely -- for "chronic" overtim...Yes, definitely -- for "chronic" overtime only though. When I was a young AE at Y&R, I was assigned to the Eastern Airlines account. This was during the hey day of deregulation and the "fare wars." We would be all ready to go home and all of a sudden a fare ware would erupt and then all hell broke lose. It meant creating the ads, adapting them to market pairs, and getting Roghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12516083406046464609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-69892828554339151732013-12-07T02:03:24.242-05:002013-12-07T02:03:24.242-05:00Trevor,
Yes I agree, that is the law. But you wou...Trevor,<br /><br />Yes I agree, that is the law. But you would still be expected to finish servicing your client even if that means taking work home and checking emails. Not putting in the hours means your job performance would suffer and hence getting sacked. I have seen this happen. <br /><br />AJAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-7007831561307326792013-12-06T19:00:55.875-05:002013-12-06T19:00:55.875-05:00It's not a choice, it's a legal thing. As ...It's not a choice, it's a legal thing. As in, it's illegal for employers to expect you to work over 50 hours, or factor that into job performance reviews.<br />Trevorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11532769228711624546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-61215993457914997772013-12-06T18:39:46.389-05:002013-12-06T18:39:46.389-05:00Trevor,
Lets be honest, Europeans may have hours ...Trevor,<br /><br />Lets be honest, Europeans may have hours set on them, but you can hardly say to your employer OK i have worked 50 hours now and will stop working. What is written in the HR manual and what does on under the 'unwritten rules of work' are completely different. I at work have the benefit to leave early at 4pm on a Friday, but my boss and colleagues would be working til at Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-46948554570312970632013-12-06T18:08:32.618-05:002013-12-06T18:08:32.618-05:00What I'm saying is that it shouldn't be an...What I'm saying is that it shouldn't be an 'either/or' issue, and people who perpetuate that aren't really anything but advertising elitists. <br /><br />Speaking personally, I want a job that is fulfilling both professionally and creatively, and advertising accommodates both of those desires. However, I don't think it's too much to ask to want that and have reasonableTrevorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11532769228711624546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-55001815113803656292013-12-06T17:32:54.954-05:002013-12-06T17:32:54.954-05:00Trevor: That is an interesting point of view. Wh...Trevor: That is an interesting point of view. What it made me think is that all service businesses - advertising, legal, accountants, etc. all share this issue.<br /><br />The question of work life balance is a very individual issue. Many people drop out of advertising (as well as other service businesses) in order to find a more accommodating lifestyle. View From Madison Avenuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-7802729243414232442013-12-06T17:10:13.901-05:002013-12-06T17:10:13.901-05:00I think that the bigger question shouldn't be,...I think that the bigger question shouldn't be, "is this within the status-quo of an agency," but rather "is this status-quo correct?" <br /><br />I personally don't think it is. I've been in the industry for a while, and I hate the attitude of "if you aren't willing to devote your life to your work, you're not cut out for advertising" that many Trevorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11532769228711624546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-30602606471025083912013-12-06T11:00:58.721-05:002013-12-06T11:00:58.721-05:00Hi Elliot: Nice, fair and insightful comment.
Let...Hi Elliot: Nice, fair and insightful comment.<br /><br />Let me address some of it. If you follow my blog and posts, you know that I am constant ranting about agency turnover. It is far too high and much of the churn is avoidable.<br /><br />My friend is a fabulous mentor and boss and, indeed, does have a stake in the careers of people who work for her.<br /><br />The issue with many of the View From Madison Avenuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-49120817354439927422013-12-06T10:52:27.005-05:002013-12-06T10:52:27.005-05:00I'm not so sure this young lady has a sense of...I'm not so sure this young lady has a sense of entitlement, but rather wants to share in the equity she is creating for the agency in a fair and equitable way. The agency position seems to be that it is doing her a favor by letting her get the experience and advance her capabilities. On the other hand, how will the agency respond when the young lady (if she is does advance her skill sets, Elliot DeBearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15842982719041846101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-57226173807364291942013-12-05T14:29:10.876-05:002013-12-05T14:29:10.876-05:00AJ: Thanks for your point of view. AJ: Thanks for your point of view. View From Madison Avenuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-71917826987300629502013-12-05T12:26:11.973-05:002013-12-05T12:26:11.973-05:00I have to side with the AS, this women is working ...I have to side with the AS, this women is working stupid hours and is doing a rather good job. It is only fair that she is rewarded equally and fairly. If she feels she is being treated well by her employer, she will bend over backward to make sure she does a good job. Sounds like to me, she will be leaving soon to find a better job, where her employer treats her fairly. It is always junior Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-50577785575980211722013-12-05T08:28:08.451-05:002013-12-05T08:28:08.451-05:00Philip, of course you are right. But the ability ...Philip, of course you are right. But the ability to work from home, take time off and supervise yourself only comes when an employee earns the trust of their company. Unfortunately, by asking for overtime and demanding a raise, this person cast doubt on her commitment and understanding of her job and her role within it. Too bad, because you are right. View From Madison Avenuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-21256414027426834392013-12-04T17:21:38.498-05:002013-12-04T17:21:38.498-05:00I think there are several good points here, includ...I think there are several good points here, including the advice to her about the human capital she is building.<br /><br />My best advice to her, however, is to be thankful she is in an industry that can be flexible. Yes, there are 6am calls and meetings that go to 11pm (e.g. annual planning at Kellogg), but there is also the ability to leave early to catch the school play, work from home, and Philip Emmanuelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06659391371292932583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-10781071414439654782013-12-04T08:20:25.432-05:002013-12-04T08:20:25.432-05:00Bill: As always, an interesting point of view. Tha...Bill: As always, an interesting point of view. Thanks for your thoughts.View From Madison Avenuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-44214825596171700992013-12-03T21:48:19.700-05:002013-12-03T21:48:19.700-05:00First, no salaried employee gets overtime in adver...First, no salaried employee gets overtime in advertising. Maybe a bonus at some point, but no OT. Next, sounds like this gal should learn to manage her time and zones better. Lots of people work on global or geographically dispersed accounts and they're not all working her hours. I think she should ask her boss how the rest of her account group handles the time zone thing - they all can&#Bill Crandallnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-61165868257798507742013-12-03T16:47:50.808-05:002013-12-03T16:47:50.808-05:00If she wanted overtime she should work at McDonald...If she wanted overtime she should work at McDonald's and get out of the industry for people who enjoy the work. <br /><br />Is anyone really surprised that long hours are expected at an advertising agency?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-941460939156258172013-12-03T15:04:47.543-05:002013-12-03T15:04:47.543-05:00Thanks, Nancy.
Well, I agree and I disagree. Adv...Thanks, Nancy.<br /><br />Well, I agree and I disagree. Advertising salaries have crept up. Not so much in the last five years, but at least now, entry level seems to be in the low $40's, which is a vast improvement. We are placing account supervisors in the $80-100 range, which is also an improvement. Above that, not so much. Advertising still does not pay well enough, however. There View From Madison Avenuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-50825667998744875042013-12-03T13:46:34.818-05:002013-12-03T13:46:34.818-05:00There are a couple of issues at play here. First,...There are a couple of issues at play here. First, salaries in advertising have been stagnant for years. A supervisor today makes about what a supervisor made 10 years ago and not that much more than a supervisor made at a big agency 20 years ago ( know because I was one 20 years ago). Advertising salaries have failed to keep up with salaries in other industries and the agency world will Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14940371123972771668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8575334444752638591.post-35037160297095890682013-12-03T11:37:16.906-05:002013-12-03T11:37:16.906-05:00Thanks, George. That is an accurate and fair asses...Thanks, George. That is an accurate and fair assessment. In order to be successful in advertising, one must have both a love for the business and the intestinal fortitude to stay with it.View From Madison Avenuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133010500698814644noreply@blogger.com